Heads up: Some or all of the identifications affected by this split may have been replaced with identifications of Junonia. This happens when we can't automatically assign an identification to one of the output taxa. Review identifications of Junonia coenia 48505

Taxon split aaaaaa 48px Taxonomic Split 72690 (Committed on 2021-06-15)

Based on changes to the Pelham catalogue, which were based on this paper: https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1111/syen.12335

Added by nlblock on February 25, 2020 21:10 | Committed by nlblock on June 15, 2021
split into

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@nlblock, not sure if you're still working on this, but FYI, as far as I can tell, J. grisea is not atlased: it has an atlas, but no presence places, so this split would be pretty disruptive in its current state. Unfortunately the paper you cited is closed-access, so the only people who can update the atlas would be those with access to the paper.

I'm now seeing a length discussion at https://www.inaturalist.org/flags/472648. Maybe it would be wise to put a notice in this change's description asking people not to commit it until the situation with BoA has been resolved.

Posted by kueda 8 months ago (Flag)
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@loarie, here is the draft split. The children still need to be moved, though.

Posted by nlblock about 2 months ago (Flag)
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This seems to show a tremendous number of Common Buckeye (in the post-split sense) in CA. As I'm sure you've read, the lead author of the study doesn't believe any remain there (there's evidence of a historical population, which might have been a short-lived introduction).

Posted by snapdragyn about 2 months ago (Flag)
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All of the CA Commons would be re-identified as Gray Buckeyes with this split, based on the atlases not overlapping there.

Posted by nlblock about 2 months ago (Flag)
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Just pinging again, @loarie. From my understanding, it seems like almost all the buckeyes in AZ are Gray, so do you think it makes more sense to remove AZ and Sonora from the Common atlas? Any rare corrections to the resulting Gray IDs could be then made by identifiers later, if needed. That would leave just CO, NM, west TX, and Chihuahua where buckeye IDs would revert to the genus level.

Tagging some others who may have more input on the atlases: @hypanartia, @upupamartin, @kwillmott, @djringer, @brian_banker

Posted by nlblock about 2 months ago (Flag)
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What are you planning to do with Junonia coenia ssp. bergi and Junonia coenia ssp. coenia? Do they stay with Junonia coenia sensu stricto?

Also - instead of making a new Junonia coenia 1040786, lets use the input Junonia coenia 48505 as described here
https://www.inaturalist.org/blog/40417-using-a-taxon-split-input-as-an-output

This will leave all Junonia coenia 48505 ID's alone where the atlases overlap so it will be less disruptive. Does that make sense? Does that makes sense?

I already switched the taxa on the change, but Junonia coenia 48505 atlas needs an atlas for the sensu stricto sense. Can you make one? (e.g. recreate what you did for Junonia coenia 1040786)

Posted by loarie about 2 months ago (Flag)
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That makes sense! I think I set this up before I knew about the taxon-input-as-output method that is now preferred. I just made the adjustments to the coenia (48505) atlas.

And yes, ssp. bergi and coenia will stay with coenia sensu stricto.

Posted by nlblock about 2 months ago (Flag)
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nlblock this looks great. Thanks for your patience and hard work on this split. Once committed this should:
1) replace all IDs of Junonia coenia 48505 uniquely within the Junonia grisea 1021509 atlas with Junonia grisea 1021509
2) skip all IDs of Junonia coenia 48505 uniquely within the Junonia coenia 48505 atlas
3) replace all IDs in >1 or 0 atlases with Genus Junonia 48506

Please go ahead and commit. It will take a while, but once its done crunching (maybe 24 hours later) let me know if you see anything weird

Thanks!

Posted by loarie about 2 months ago (Flag)
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Great! Thanks so much, @loarie!

Posted by nlblock about 2 months ago (Flag)
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I love the way you guys work together for the good of all! Nuff said.

Posted by mokennon about 2 months ago (Flag)
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Suggesting changing even a single record without personally looking at each and every specimen before doing so is 'dumb as a rock' thinking. That is not how taxonomical decisions are made. And another example of why non-scientific sites as these masquerading as scientific, are bad for science. Persons making such suggestions as meaningful haven't a clue about insect taxonomy, and such suggestions are more akin to school-age minds. Unless you personally have determined that this published info is valid beyond questioning, accepting these matters as true is folly. If the so-called professional experts can't agree on these matters, what makes you think changing such things willy-nilly have any validity. Anecdotal opinions have no place in science and are useless.

There are already too-many wanna-be experts out there now screwing up the scientific literature presently, many of which are employed as taxonomists and many have advanced educational degrees. But none of those stated qualifications or accomplishments mean any more than the opinions of high-school 'bug collectors'

And just because someone publishes something doesn't mean they are correct or their assumption are valid. Don't be in a big rush to jump out there believing anything in print and adding to the existing mess. Look carefully before you leap. Your 'name' will forever be attached to your boo-boos long after you pass on.
Vernon Antoine Brou Jr.

Posted by vabrou about 2 months ago (Flag)
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Thanks for your comment, Vernon. Can you explain what specific problem(s) you might have about this particular split (which has no basis in anecdotal opinions, BTW)? The papers published on Junonia in the past couple years are pretty good science, in my professional opinion as someone with a lot of professional background in systematics. However, this split was not committed because of my opinion. iNaturalist taxonomy is largely based on accepted taxonomic authorities and changes are not made willy-nilly. In this case, North American butterfly taxonomy on iNat generally follows the Pelham catalogue, which has long been recognized as a rigorous authority.

Taxonomy is in constant flux in any group of organisms; it's never "true". It's just an interpretation of a body of evidence that is constantly being added to. As you seem to disagree with how iNat taxonomy changes happen, I'd love to hear any suggestions you have about how to improve the process. iNat's success, after all, is based largely on having a community of users providing input on such matters.

And for what it's worth, if your comment "Persons making such suggestions as meaningful haven't a clue about insect taxonomy, and such suggestions are more akin to school-age minds" is somehow directed at me, you're incorrect.

Posted by nlblock about 2 months ago (Flag)
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@vabrou could you clarify? Are you concerns about:
1) the taxonomy that iNaturalist follows (Junonia coenia s.s. vs. Junonia coenia s.l.)?
or
2) (assuming our intent to split Junonia coenia) whether it's wise or not to use distribution to replace certain IDs of Junonia coenia with IDs of Junonia grisea (vs replacing them Junonia is prefereable)?

Posted by loarie about 2 months ago (Flag)

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